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Crank Shootout #2.

Product Reviews of Cranksets, Cranks, Bottom Brackets.

Crank Shootout #2.

Postby madcow » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:17 pm

Welcome back to the first follow-up to the crank shootout. I've added several cranks to the test for this first update.

I've been meaning to get a boutique crank review done for quite a while and have just not found the time to do it. However recently thanks to EE Cycle Works I found myself with access to some crank testing equipment and couldn't pass up the opportunity to see for myself some of the differences in some of the boutique cranksets.

So on to the review. These are the cranks we'll be looking at for part 2 of this review, in alphabetical order (sorry a couple of pics didn't turn out so I'm using stock pics for Zipp and Tune.

1. Campag Record UT
2. Easton EC90
3. EE
4. Extralite QRC
5. FSA SLK-Light
6. Kcnc Ktype
7. PMP MicroII
8. Shimano Dura Ace
9. Sram Red
10. Storck Powerarm SL
11. Stronglight Fission
12. Stronglight X-wing
13. Thm Clavicula
14. Tune Fast Foot 6pack
15. Vista Integral
16. Zipp Vuma quad

A couple of notes on how the deflection testing was done. Each arm was preloaded with 50lbs. From there another 200 lbs was added and the difference was measured in inches. Each arm was tested twice and an average of those two measurements is what I will post. A lower number represents a stiffer crank. These will be labeled as Deflection-D(Drive side deflection) and Deflection-ND(non-drive side deflection)

We also tested the amount of of deflection in the chainrings by the loading of each arm. This isn't all that useful of a measurement unless you are having problems with front derailleur clearance issues. Typically these numbers were quite small. Labeled as Lateral-D

Lastly a stiffness x weight(SxW) measurements of sort. This was gained by taking the weight x deflection of drive arm x deflection of non-drive arm. A lower number here represents a higher SxW.

They offered to do failure testing in which cranks are tested to failure, but I decided that I cannot afford to do that right now, perhaps in the future, as it's definitely something that I'm interested in. As well that would have added weeks or months to the amount of time it took to do the test.

Now on to the test.
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Campagnolo Record Ultra Torque
Weight: 702grams w/bb
Q-factor: 145mm
Spindle: 24.85mm
Deflection-D: 0.163
Deflection-ND: 0.279
SxW:32
Lateral-D: 0.012

Likes: Aesthetics, it's a very simple and clean looking crank. Looks good on almost any bike. Has a respectable weight, and very good stiffness making it one of the best SxWs that we tested. Q-factor is 2nd narrowest in the test which is great for most people. The rings shift quality and durability is also near the top of the charts. All in all a great crank.

Dislikes: Setup. The design requires tight frame tolerances, it's often not a plug and play kind of crank and is known to have issues with creaking noises. Also the proprietary bcd on the compact seems a bit annoying, however I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in thinking that the compact gained something from the odd length 5th arm. The chainring bolts that are ridiculously priced are well beyond explanation(it's just plain gouging). Also since a very high torque is required to attach the two arms it would be nice if it were a bit easier to find the proper torque wrench attachment(for the price of these cranks the tool should be included.)

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Easton EC90
Weight: 671.3grams complete
Q-factor: 146mm
Spindle: 23.98mm
Deflection-D: 0.200
Deflection-ND: 0.352
SxW: 47
Lateral-D: 0.011

Likes: A nice all around crank. Very easy installation. Shifts well and has a decent q-factor. I also liked that the chainring bolts used were allen key backed on a torx front. I like that the non-drive arm obscures the bearing cup by fairing it. I also like the raw fuctional look of the UD carbon. Ceramic bb option is reasonably priced.

Dislikes: The graphics and pedal insert. For some reason those two aspects give the crank a cheapish look. I also can't understand why someone taking this long to get into the crank market would go with the 24mm spindle rather than a larger spindle. The only reason I can think of for this is that they choose to target the oem module market over building a better crank.

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EE Proto
Weight: 669.2grams w/bb and Dura Ace rings
Q-factor: 142mm
Spindle: 29.82mm
Deflection-D: 0.144
Deflection-ND: 0.225
SxW: 25
Lateral-D: 0.005

Note: I didn't plan on including this in the test as I only wanted cranks that I could put miles on and have some real world feedback on. It turns out that this is an older prototype and there is already a version after this one, that meant that this one was available for me to use for testing. Please note this crank will not be available for sale I'm including it just for fun.

Likes: In terms of technical function, this is the best balance I've seen yet in a crank. Low weight, high stiffness, very narrow q-factor, fantastic shifting(with DA rings). Having this has only made me hope that they decide to one day put a crank into production again. I also liked how the bearings were retained in the cups with clips making a bearing change much easier than on all the other outboard setups.

Dislikes: Gold, though I suspect there are alternate hardcoats that can be used in other colors. The other complaint I'd have with this as a production crank is that the left and right bearings have different IDs. This is accomplished by a very thin ti shim between a bearing and spindle. Similar to how THM has done it, but in this case it's not bonded to the spindle. It's possible this could lead to creaking issues, but I don't know that is true, nor did I have any noise issues.
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Extralite QRC
Weight: 615grams w/bb and TA chainrings
Q-factor:138mm
Spindle: 21.75mm
Deflection-D: 0.206
Deflection-ND: 0.513
SxW: 65
Lateral-D: 0.016

Likes: Weight. A really good weight particularly for an alloy crank(3rd lightest tested, beaten only by Zipp and Thm) I absolutely love the 138mm Q-factor. This is one of very few integrated cranks that give you the ability to adjust the preload on the bearings, another great feature. Far narrower than any other crank. Looks are good, setup is quite easy and the bearings run smooth and long. All in all the ideas and execution are top notch.

Dislikes: I don't like that it is only available in compact. I also would love to see it a bit stiffer. I'd gladly trade a few grams to increase the bb diameter which should stiffen the crank quite a bit.

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FSA SL-K Light
Weight: 766grams w/bb
Q-factor:150mm
Spindle: 23.66mm
Deflection-D: 0.149
Deflection-ND: 0.278
SxW: 32
Lateral-D: 0.005

Likes: The best thing I can say about this crank is that it is stiff. Right on par with DA and Campag. It's a nice looking crank and typically has a price that makes it quite a deal for a carbon crank.

Dislikes: Previous versions of their carbon cranks have been unpredictable. The cranks vary in weight by as much as 40-50 grams per set. Often spiders and rings were not true.(however after sampling a a group of the SL-K Light, that does seem to be vastly improved). Rings also could use some improvement in their shifting quality and a reduction in q-factor would be nice.


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Kcnc Ktype
Weight: 706grams w/bb
Q-factor: 145mm
Spindle: 24.02mm
Deflection-D: 0.223
Deflection-ND: 0.407
SxW: 64
Lateral-D: 0.017

Likes: Price, this is the least expensive crank we tested. Shift quality is quite high. Stiffness is somewhere in the middle, stiffer than some not as stiff as others. Bearing quality is good and installation is very easy. Definitely the best bargin in terms of 700gram cranks.

Dislikes: The bearing size is not a standard size so finding replacement bearings when the time comes is not as easy as with most of the other cranks. Like on the FSA spiders are often a little out of true(although you can straighten these a bit)


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PMP MicroII
Weight: 845grams
Q-factor: 147mm
Spindle: 17.46mm
Deflection-D: 0.204
Deflection-ND: 0.683
SxW:139
Lateral-D: 0.014

Likes: It's different. I really like that they went a bit off the beaten path to try something different with this crank. The crank looks nice and all the parts fit together well. The setup is very time consuming though seems to work quite well when done. The chainrings were my favorite part, the machining is great and they function quite well. I like the overall look of the crank as a unit, especially the black one. I also like how the crank arms fit over the outboard cups making for a clean transition.

Dislikes: Stiffness, or lack thereof. This is the least stiff crank we tested as well as also being the heaviest, not a good combination for me. I can't see any reason to use such a small diameter spindle, especially when it's ti. Making that larger could improve the stiffness a bit.

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Shimano Dura-Ace
Weight: 772grams w/bb
Q-factor: 147mm
Spindle: 23.86mm
Deflection-D: 0.140
Deflection-ND: 0.295
SxW: 32
Lateral-D: 0.007

Likes: Stiffness and shift quality. The shift quality of the DA rings is unmatched by any other crank I've ever tried. Installation is easy and quick and generally without problem. While being heavier than most of the lightweights it's very much a bolt and forget kind of crank. In terms of pure performance, this is the current benchmark for others to aim for.

Dislikes: I'd like to see the weight come down a bit. The looks. Like most, I thought this was the ugliest crank when it came out, however now it seems I've desensitized a bit and only find it somewhat offensive. I guess I found some beauty in function.


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Sram Red
Weight: 755grams
Q-factor: 150mm
Spindle: 23.89mm
Deflection-D: 0.150
Deflection-ND: 0.278
SxW: 31
Lateral-D: 0.004

Likes: It's a good looking, reasonably weighted, stiff crank at a good price. The Red crank had the lowest average deflection of all cranks we tested. When you add price into the equation it becomes a very balanced crankset. I'd call this crank the sleeper of the test. It was the one that surprised me the most.

Dislikes: Rings. While the rings shift ok, they could definitely stand for some improvements. I'd also like to see the q-factor reduced by at least a few mm, but preferably more.



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Storck Power Arm SL
Weight: 596grams w/bb and DA rings
Q-factor: 152mm
Spindle: 29.86mm
Deflection-D: 0.193
Deflection-ND: 0.314
SxW: 36
Lateral-D: 0.009

Likes: I like that they addressed what I felt were several problems with the Clavicula. The end cap does not crack, the insert does not come loose nor do the bearing races. Other than the spindle material being different the cranks seem virtually the same. Functionally it's a great crank. Stiff and lightweight and a triumph of carbon manufacturing.

Dislikes: The 152mm q-factor and the huge price tag are two to start. One detail that really bothers me is that the end cap has been redesigned from what THM used. In doing this they have created a new standard that is not an allen key nor is it the shimano end cap tool. It is it's own design with it's own tool. However it seems that the tool does not come with the cranks nor is it even available. So you are left to install your cranks with a pin-spanner, screwdriver or some makeshift tool that you come up with on your own. That's not such a big deal until that tool slips and scratches the arms.

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Stronglight Fission Ti
Weight: 754grams w/bb
Q-factor: 154mm
Spindle: 21.54mm
Deflection-D: 0.195
Deflection-ND: 0.396
SxW: 58
Lateral-D: 0.013

Likes: Looks over the Pulsion are greatly improved. The CT2 rings are some of the best rings. I also like that the pedal fitting is reversible to create arms that are either 172.5 or 175. The adjustable fitting also looks like it won't be subject to de-bonding as the Pulsion did. Muted graphics match any bike.

Dislikes: The very small bearings. By keeping the bearing inside the frame they have used an Isis bearing that has questionable durability and is difficult to find as a replacement, a bad combination. For a ti spindled carbon crank, I'd have expected it to be lighter.



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Stronglight X-wing
Weight: 737grams
Q-factor: 146mm
Spindle: 21.58mm
Deflection-D: 0.181
Deflection-ND: 0.379
SxW: 51

Likes: I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this crank appeals to me. It probably has to do with the shape, aesthetically speaking. I also like the 146/110bcd bolt pattern. This should make for a stiffer ring(both compact and std) which could be an important characteristic when moving to Di2, as well as giving the owners the option of switching back and forth between compact and std without changing cranks. The UD finish is nicely done too.

Dislikes: graphics, especially on the ring, there is just too much writing on the crank/ring. The ugly plastic plugs that cover the multiple chainring bolt sets. I dislike the very thin not easily replaced bb bearings. Wearing out a bearing on a Stronglight crank in the U.S. is not a good thing since the distributor does not usually stock bearings. Standard sized outboard bearings with a larger spindle would be a big improvement in my opinion.

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Thm Clavicula
Weight: 580 w/bb and DA rings.
Q-factor: 151mm
Spindle: 29.76mm
Deflection-D: 0.169
Deflection-ND: 0.315
SxW: 31
Lateral-D: 0.019

Likes: What's not to like about this crank.? Looks, stiffness, weight, SxW, exclusivity etc... It has it all. It's the pinnacle of what carbon constructed cranks can be.

Dislikes: What's not to like about this crank? Ok, so perhaps there are a few things. The huge price, the 151 q-factor, the availability, the durability. The big two for me is the q-factor, they are just a bit too wide for me. But more importantly is the durability. While this is a nicely made crank, the limits are being pushed. While we've never seen catastrophic failures we have seen a few more loose pedal inserts, loose bearing races, and loose thread inserts in the spindle than we'd like to. Also while this is one of the stiffest cranks in the test it is also one of the only cranks to have a rider weight limit.

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Tune Fast Foot + 6 pack ti
Weight: 687grams w/bb
Q-factor: 154mm
Spindle: 19.31mm
Deflection-D: 0.292
Deflection-ND: 0.488
SxW: 98
Lateral-D: 0.004

Likes: The non-tapered bb means arms don't get stuck easily. Also it has a minimalistic clean look to it and is available in a wide range of colors.

Dislikes: The Q-factor is large, 154. The setup is a complete pain in the... and the stiffness is certainly lacking. I'd love to see Tune take a stab at redesigning and improving on a design they have had for quite a long time. I think the arms could be stiffer as could the bb.


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Vista Integral
Weight: 811grams w/bb but adjusted for pedals.
Q-factor: 160mm
Spindle: 26.58mm
Deflection-D: 0.170
Deflection-ND: 0.322
SxW: 44
Lateral-D: 0.006

Likes: I like that this reduces the q-factor vs using the pedals on their own. I like the fact that it changes the way you pedal entirely. The crank is one of the few items that I felt instantly better on as soon as I bolted it up. Stiffness is not bad, not the best, but certainly something to be lived with.

Dislikes: Even though it reduces the q-factor over the std pedal, it still has a wider stance than all the other cranks we tested. 161mm. The lower pedal is also far more likely to hit the ground in corners and the forward position of it increases toe overlap. It could also stand to loose a few grams.

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Zipp Vuma Quad
Weight: 564grams w/bb
Q-factor: 146mm
Spindle: 29.64mm
Deflection-D: 0.209
Deflection-ND: 0.308
SxW: 36
Lateral-D: ? (I didn't have this one recorded)

Likes: Weight, stiffness, q-factor, looks and even the price. While on the upper end of the cost spectrum, it's not much more than Record yet with a big savings in weight and a decent stiffness. Again with muted graphics it matches any bike. It's the closest in SxW to Thm that we've seen and at a better price which also includes rings.

Dislikes: Rings. The rings could certainly use some work on their shifting ramps and pins. That wouldn't be much of a dislike if I could put TA or Stronglight rings on it, but since I can't it becomes much more of an issue to me.

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Here's a couple of pictures of the testing.

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This one shows just the average deflection of all the cranks. Lower numbers are better.Image

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This one shows SxW. Again lower would be better.
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So that's it in a nutshell. Some facts, some opinions and some pictures.

There is still a 3rd installment coming featuring Cannondale SI versions, Lightning and hopefully a couple others. If there's anything not featured that you think should be, let me know and I'll try my best to get one tested. Some companies have been contacted and have either opted not to be tested or have unfortunately ignored our requests.
Last edited by madcow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mythical » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:35 pm

I'm very pleased to see such an elaborate test being undertaken. My greatest respect also for Craig in building such a fine product (never mind the test setup!):!: I happen to know some of the improvements of the updated EE cranks and if they do ever make it to production, would arguable make some of the best cranks ever! :grin:

madcow, will we be getting some more feedback on the miles with your EE crankset? :D
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Postby djconnel » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:00 pm

First, thanks for the excellent test. Of course, I'm (1) disappointed to see Specialized turned you down, (2) disappointed Lightning "available in January" is no-show in August, (3) look forward to seeing your Cannondale results.

A few comments:
  • Check the PMP. I get 117 for the SxW parameter. Not that that matters. It's big.
  • Your SxW is actually of the form SxSxW. Deflection counts twice as much as mass. To get a deflection x mass measurement, you need to either take the square root of the product of the deflections, or the sum of the deflections (which makes more sense to me: a zero deflection on one arm and a large deflection on the other arm is still a whippy crank, even if the product is zero).


edit:I changed deflection units to mm/N of applied differential load (from inches/200 lb). qf = "q-factor". dspindle = spindle diameter [mm]. d-d = driveside deflection [mm/N]. d-nd = nondriveside deflection [mm/N]. d-l = lateral deflection [mm/N]. dsum = sum of drive and non-driveside deflections. ddw = product of drive and nondriveside deflections times mass. dw = dsum times mass.
Code: Select all
crank                          grams qf  dspindle d-d     d-nd    d-l     dsum   ddw   dw
EE_Proto                       669.2 142 29.82    0.04032 0.063   0.0014  0.1033 1.7   69.14
Thm_Clavicula                  580   151 29.76    0.04732 0.0882  0.00532 0.1355 2.42  78.6
Zipp_Vuma_Quad                 564   146 29.64    0.05852 0.08624 -       0.1448 2.846 81.64
Storck_Power_Arm_SL            596   152 29.86    0.05404 0.08792 0.00252 0.142  2.831 84.6
Campagnolo_Record_Ultra_Torque 702   145 24.85    0.04564 0.07812 0.00336 0.1238 2.503 86.88
Sram_Red                       755   150 23.89    0.042   0.07784 0.00112 0.1198 2.468 90.48
FSA_SL-K_Light                 766   150 23.66    0.04172 0.07784 0.0014  0.1196 2.487 91.58
Shimano_Dura-Ace               772   147 23.86    0.0392  0.0826  0.00196 0.1218 2.499 94.03
Easton_EC90                    671.3 146 23.98    0.056   0.09856 0.00308 0.1546 3.705 103.8
Vista_Integral                 811   160 26.58    0.0476  0.09016 0.00168 0.1378 3.48  111.7
Stronglight_X-wing             737   146 21.58    0.05068 0.1061  -       0.1568 3.963 115.6
Extralite_QRC                  615   138 21.75    0.05768 0.1436  0.00448 0.2013 5.095 123.8
Kcnc_Ktype                     706   145 24.02    0.06244 0.114   0.00476 0.1764 5.023 124.5
Stronglight_Fission_Ti         754   154 21.54    0.0546  0.1109  0.00364 0.1655 4.564 124.8
Tune_Fast_Foot_+_6_pack_ti     687   154 19.31    0.08176 0.1366  0.00112 0.2184 7.674 150
PMP_MicroII                    845   147 17.46    0.05712 0.1912  0.00392 0.2483 9.23  209.9
Last edited by djconnel on Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby djconnel » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:51 pm

A plot of these data (edit: I changed the units of deflection to mm/N):
Image

Interestingly, much of the variation in stiffness/mass is predicted by spindle size squared:
Image

It would be interesting to see how the new Look Zed stacks up.
Last edited by djconnel on Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Juanmoretime » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:25 am

Jason, thanks for the awesome review. I always enjoy the unbiased and objective reviews.
For my next trick I will set myself on fire!
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Postby Mat » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:28 am

Yes, Thank you - Well done.

If the figures are correct, why doesn't EE come to market with those cranks? would make things very interesting!

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Postby djconnel » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:13 pm

BTW, for the record, my plots use kgf, not newtons.... the two differ by a factor 9.8 m/sec^2. Sorry for the error.
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Postby madcow » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:28 pm

Mat wrote:
If the figures are correct, why doesn't EE come to market with those cranks? would make things very interesting!

M.


EE is not completely satisfied with the cranks. They felt this version of the crank was not the best combination of weight, stiffness, strength and price that they could make. There is another version after this one and hopefully it will fulfill their requirements.
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Postby Mat » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:31 pm

Thanks Jason,

Good to know that just being top of the field isn't good enough for these guys ad they have their own higher requirements to meet.

M.

madcow wrote:
Mat wrote:
If the figures are correct, why doesn't EE come to market with those cranks? would make things very interesting!

M.


EE is not completely satisfied with the cranks. They felt this version of the crank was not the best combination of weight, stiffness, strength and price that they could make. There is another version after this one and hopefully it will fulfill their requirements.
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Re: Crank Shootout #2.

Postby xntrickly » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:44 pm

Will the revised EE cranks be re-tested? I had some of their original sweet wings and only just took them off my bike in favor of the Si crankset.

Many thanks for the comprehensive test(s) available on this site.
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Re: Crank Shootout #2.

Postby Storck » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:54 pm

All Powerarms SL Cranks come with a BB tool that doubles as the end cap tool. All you need to do is flip the tool around and use the end to remove and tighten the end cap. As a side note, if you are in a pinch, a U.S. Quarter will work as well!
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Re: Crank Shootout #2.

Postby djconnel » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:21 pm

Madcow has reported test data on some more cranks will be available soon, including Lightning. Lightning has close to a 30 mm spindle, putting it in the same category as EE, Vuma Quad, THM, and Storck. It'll be interesting to see where its stiffness/mass stacks up relative to those other cranks. Certainly I don't expect it to apprach EE, which puts extra mass to good use: stiffness/mass clearly starts to fall off when you really push the lower end of mass. So my guess is towards the lower end of the other three. But the data will tell... In any case, I'm sure it's stiff enough for me.
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Re: Crank Shootout #2.

Postby madcow » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:55 am

Storck wrote:All Powerarms SL Cranks come with a BB tool that doubles as the end cap tool. All you need to do is flip the tool around and use the end to remove and tighten the end cap. As a side note, if you are in a pinch, a U.S. Quarter will work as well!


While I do realize that the handle of the cup tool works for the preload adjuster, I don't feel it is an adequate solution for such a high end crankset. It is awkward to use and not very elegant. Such a nice crankset is deserving of a better tool that doesn't slip occasionally. Why bother to put so many slots into it if it was just two that were to be used. A nice tool that fits a ratchet or torque wrench and doesn't slip would be nice.

djconnel wrote:Madcow has reported test data on some more cranks will be available soon, including Lightning. Lightning has close to a 30 mm spindle, putting it in the same category as EE, Vuma Quad, THM, and Storck. It'll be interesting to see where its stiffness/mass stacks up relative to those other cranks. Certainly I don't expect it to apprach EE, which puts extra mass to good use: stiffness/mass clearly starts to fall off when you really push the lower end of mass. So my guess is towards the lower end of the other three. But the data will tell... In any case, I'm sure it's stiff enough for me.
Actually the cranks arrived at the test center the end of last week. They are just waiting to get some spare time to test them. Hopefully we'll have results early next week. Both the SL and the Clydesdale sets arrived for testing.

Cannondale was suppose to have supplied cranks for testing as well, but for some reason we just haven't been able to get everybody lined up and we still don't have them. The only other new crank I'll have to add to the test is the FSA K-force light.

If we find the time, I'll try to get a 7900 crank into test as well.
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Re:

Postby djconnel » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:15 am

djconnel wrote:Lightning claims to be available, although I've so far been unable to get one through a local shop.


I got one through a friend: 170 mm @ 110 mm BCD, conventional (not Clydesdale). I haven't installed it yet. So far only 110 mm BCD is available, although BCD is convertable with a spider swap.

There's some for sale here.
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Re: Crank Shootout #2.

Postby madcow » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:58 am

dj, We've had compact in several lengths, but you're right not much for 130 is available. It's a couple more weeks until the production will be done. However they were nice enough to let me know that they did find they had a single 130bcd spider and would put it on a crank for me.
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