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The track topic

Discussion on bikes, and whatever...

Re: The track topic

Postby Cyco » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:49 pm

Dalai, try and raise your gearing for IPs. It takes more force off the line, but once on top of the gear requires a slightly lower oxygen consumption during the event.

As to crank length the 1st few years I rode track I was on shorter cranks than my other bikes, but I found once I standardised my crank length across all my bikes my max and average cadences where higher. On 180s I can still get over 170, and used to be about 190 max.

I never really felt much difference between gears like 91.8 and 92.4 though I know guys like Brownie and Eaddie did (could be why I don't have a stripy shirt) but I was always looking at the steps in the 10ths of inches not in integer increments.

I have just started riding a tandem indoors, and its just like learning to ride the track again, and I've only been doing it for 15 years...
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Re: The track topic

Postby dalai » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:46 am

Cyco wrote:Dalai, try and raise your gearing for IPs. It takes more force off the line, but once on top of the gear requires a slightly lower oxygen consumption during the event.


Thanks for the tip Cyco. :wink:
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Re: The track topic

Postby Ypsylon » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:56 pm

I'm just back from a training camp and we had one day on a wood track. 200m, 42°turn.

None of us had ever been to the track and the turn looked wiked steep. It scared the heck out of some of the guys, but I figured I'd just hit it as fast as I could and see where I'd end up. It was sorta tricky to get going with the fixed gear, but once I had both my feet clipped in it was pretty much like riding a bike, just that it almost seemed it would do the pedaling for you, like it or not.

There was some scary shit as some got the hang of it way earlier than others and there were 4 person pursuits shooting around the track with others all over the place.

I used a 50x15 because that was on the bike I was handed and that appeared a good gear as it gave a good cruising speed with plenty left for a good jump. 49x15 would probably have been just as good, especially at the end.

How do you tackle a flying 200m sprint though? Some guys gave it a go, but it always looked like they went into the last turn before the start way to slow.

How bad are 14 seconds?
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Re: The track topic

Postby c50jim » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:25 am

With a 200 metre sprint, you get a warm up that's usually about 600 metres log. You build up your speed at the top of the track and come down from the banking with about 250 metres to go (50 metres before the timed section) to build up to full speed. You want to hit the 200 metre to go mark at full speed and maintain speed throughout the timed section.

14 seconds would put you in the top half of our C group here (three levels with A the highest). However, it is a learned skill and I wouldn't pay any attention to your first timed efforts. Sprinters often use bigger gears than the 90 you used. You only have to be at speed for a few seconds so the idea is to use the biggest gear you can get to speed and carry over that distance. The men's world record is about 9.8 seconds (I think it's over 75km/hr), international juniors mid to high 10s, high level women around 11. Cat 2-3 road riders here tend to be around 12-13 seconds since their programs are oriented to speed, not 12 second efforts. Look at track sprinters - huge thighs, tree trunk legs. Unless you want totrain a lot with weights and look like that, you'll struggle to get under about 11.5 seconds or so.
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Re: The track topic

Postby Cyco » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:45 am

I'm with jim, you will struggle to knock out a sub 12 on a 90" gear, on a 200m track you will slightly top speed limited by the small radius turns, though if they are only 42 deg they may not be that tight.

I'd want to be near doing high 40s km/h coming round the bend into the straight and then giving it everything diving down the track and over the line to start it. Depending on the shape of the track on a 200 you will probably cross the start line 'high' (outside the sprinter's lane) to still be dropping into the 1st part of the bend. The really hard part then is keeping it down and smooth.

Current world record 9.572s Moscow is a 333.3m track, so the start is in the back straight, but you can see he was high on the way over the line.

By the end of the year I want to be doing 10s on the tandem :D
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Re: The track topic

Postby dalai » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:27 am

Cyco wrote:Dalai, try and raise your gearing for IPs. It takes more force off the line, but once on top of the gear requires a slightly lower oxygen consumption during the event.


Increased my 3000m IP gearing from 49*14 to 50*14 for the National Masters Track Titles yesterday - I self paced well (need to talk someone into walking the line for me rather than use PE) and rode a 3:41:701 - an 8 second PB from the State Titles only a month ago. Still 9 seconds off yesterdays winning time in Masters 3, but even without specific IP training I'm heading in the right direction!
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Re: The track topic

Postby Cyco » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:16 pm

Congratulations!
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Re: The track topic

Postby Ypsylon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:00 am

What can I say, the track is done.

:xBanana6: :xBanana2: :xBanana4: :xBanana5: :xBanana7 :xBanana8: :xBanana9: :xCow: :banana: :xBanana1:

:party:

Getting the old tarmac off the track was a royal PITA and my back hurts just thinking about it, but it was well worth it. We got it done just before the winter came upon us, and so far I only got a couple of laps of general riding in, so the real track fun is still waiting for us.

I haven't given it a shot yet myself, but the fastest lap so far is 27.0s, track is ~400m long, but I don't know exactly.

If the position is more forward and agressive than on a road bike I'd look for a frame with longish reach and low stack, right?
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Re: The track topic

Postby dunlinii » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:57 pm

Sounds about right. Sounds like you had quite a bit of fun doing it, when will we see pics :P
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Re: The track topic

Postby Ypsylon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:22 pm

I don't have pics, unfortunatly. It's not all that spectacular either. Looks like a track.

I can see how this will not exactly accelerate my cross project, though.
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Re: The track topic

Postby stumpytrunks » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:25 am

My advice would be to get something that fits well with low drop bars. That way if you ever need to put aero bars on it won't be too much of a stretch to make it work. Look for something with a top tube that requires a 120mm stem. Anything shorter and you lose a bit of feel; and also lose a bit of control when there is contact. I've always run a frame that is a around 1cm shorter in the top tube than my road frame if that helps at all (obviously a lot depends on bar reach there).
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Re: The track topic

Postby Ypsylon » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:07 am

A lot of things are pointing towards a sponsorship deal with a certain frame, that comes with a reach of either 358 or 390mm. The reach of my S1 is 380mm. So -1cm is not an option, unfortunatly.

I use a 120mm -17° stem and a bar with 89mm reach. So I end up with a total reach of 589mm.

My guesstimate of a track bar is a reach of 95-100mm, so a bit longer.

On the road I run a setback of 65mm, going closer to 50mm on the track would move me forward a bit.

Stack on my road bike is 541mm, on the track bike it would be either 503 or 507mm, so quite a bit lower.

With a 3mm headsetcap and 128mm of drop I get a stack in the drops of 416mm on the road.


In the end it works out like this:

Stack Reach

S1...............416...........589

Size 52:

+6°............396............565
-6°............381............569

20mm spacers added:

+6°...........415.............560
-6°...........391.............566

Size 54

+6°..........400.............597
-6°..........485.............607

20mm spacers added:

+6°..........419............592
-6°..........395............598


Hope this helps (you help me) at all.
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Re: The track topic

Postby stumpytrunks » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:05 am

Definitely go the 390mm. The 358 will see you having way too much weight over the front wheel, which will either cause you to flip the rear wheel up when out of the saddle, or cause your hands to go numb due to the pressure.

From what you've said I'd go for the 390 and try your -17 120mm stem upside down and see how that goes. Might be a little long, but with your saddle at 50mm it will make it close to a good fit. Old school rule of thumb is that when in the drops, in a racing position, the top of your bars should stop you seeing your front hub (hope that makes sense). Always seems to work pretty well.

(Edit for my spelling)
Last edited by stumpytrunks on Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The track topic

Postby Ypsylon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:05 am

Makes perfect sense.

Thanks.
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Re: The track topic

Postby Cyco » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm

Have been learning how to track stand the tandem. Not the easiest skill I've ever tried to master on the bike...
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