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Camp record rear derailleur tuning

Discussion on bikes, and whatever...

Camp record rear derailleur tuning

Postby FelixOr » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:04 pm

Ok, i finally decided to tune that damn thing! Almost every part on my bike is tuned and mich lighter than it was originally, apart from the rear derailleur. So far i just used a Fibre-Lyte plate and Tacx jockeys..... now i want to do some serious stuff.

Therefor i need your help. I thought that Scapin could give me some helpful tipps? ;)

First of all, i dissasembled the derailleur, and put the parts my scale. For things like this, a scale with 0.1 grams accuracy is pretty nice. Thanks again Boonen!

Well, here are the parts that cannot be changed. I'm also not sure if i can customize them.... I'm afraid they will stay as they are.
....
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I already changed the limit screws to alu ones
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Fibre-Lyte rear plate
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don't know how to call this thing
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same here....
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Cablefixing-bolt is already changed to an alu one
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This screw has a special thread... i'm afraid it's almost impossible to get one made of alu
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Same problem here....
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Here are the parts that can be changed/customized, your help is appreciated!
front plate. What could i do to make it lighter? Dont know if drilling it would be smart..
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Where can i get these made of alu?? jockey-wheel screws
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Where i can this one made of alu? It's the bolt that fixes the front-plate
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Tastynuts.com offers the pivot bolt in aluminium. I'll get one. Is it right, that Camp and Shimano bolts are interchangeable?
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pivoting bolts made of steel. Will be pretty hard to get these in titanium... what do you think?
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What about the springs? Can i get titanium ones, or will it effect shifting?
If it doesn't, who knows where to get ti ones?
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Best part! Lots of sanding, drilling and polishing will be done here. Looking forward to it :grin:
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jockey weels....... of course they will be changed. Which do you recommend?
Fibre-Lyte Any updates about yours? Can i get them soon, or are they still under development?
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Thanks in advance for your help! :)

Grtz, Felix
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Postby Tristan » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:42 pm

Hi Felix

I think this is a great project, I can't wait to see the results!

In regards to the non-standard threaded items, prehaps you could talk to someone like SRP about making them? It would be fairly straight forward for them to make on-offs and then the design work they did can be put towards making a production item for themselves.
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Postby FelixOr » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:07 pm

Thanks Tristan :)

Do SRP have a website? Can't find one with Google...

Cheers
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Postby madcow » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:13 pm

As far as I know, SRP no longer manufactures. They are still selling the old stock, but don't make anything new.

It's going to be hard to find the one-off stuff for this. I've found contacts that will make ti or alloy pieces, but it's a minimum of 500 of each different piece.
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Postby FelixOr » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:32 pm

madcow wrote:As far as I know, SRP no longer manufactures. They are still selling the old stock, but don't make anything new.

It's going to be hard to find the one-off stuff for this. I've found contacts that will make ti or alloy pieces, but it's a minimum of 500 of each different piece.


That's bad news :(
500 pieces is a lot.... will be hard, or rather impossible, to order such things.
We'll see.... :)
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Postby Fibre-Lyte » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:41 am

Felix,

I think that TA makes a full set of replacement ally screws etc. for the Record rear mech. I couldn't see them on their website, but if you go to www.sub-4.de they have the set listed

As for our jockey wheels, hopefully very soon. A few sets are being sent out to various riders to give them a good work out and if feedback is positive we'll retail them. The current weight is 4g each
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Postby FelixOr » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:55 am

Thanks FB :thumbUp:
I will definitely wait until your jockey wheels are released and give them a try
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Postby Tristan » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:22 am

madcow wrote:As far as I know, SRP no longer manufactures.


Yes, now that you mention it I had heard that....

What about Tasty Nuts or someone similar?

Having one-offs done is very expensive, but doing smallish batches of 10-50 isn't too costly. I'll offer my services by drawing the bolts up in CAD and doing all the CNC code for them. I do know of someone who *might* be able to make a batch up....it would depend on numbers really. (This some-one has a brand new 9 axis live-tool lathe / mill :-) A very, very serious toy!)

The two bolts that are non-standard....are they allen head?
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Postby Ripley451 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:27 am

Fibre-Lyte wrote:As for our jockey wheels, hopefully very soon. A few sets are being sent out to various riders to give them a good work out and if feedback is positive we'll retail them. The current weight is 4g each



Now where did I hear similar :roll:



On topic I found this this site, don't know if they're of much use though
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Postby Rasmus » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:16 pm

Oh, very nice topic. I'm gonna be watching you closely on the polishing, Felix :twisted:

As for the springs, I don't believe it to be wise to change them to Ti. I'm almost certain that shifting and general performance would suffer. However, I'm all for experimenting, so perhaps you could get hold of a Ti spoke and give it a try? :wink:

Slightly offtopic: Does anyone know how to disassemble a DA RD?

Slighty-slighty offtopic: Stephen, how much do you think your jockey wheels will retail for? Of course I'd be happy to give them a sound beating for you if you like :lol:
"Ride faster, I hear banjo music!"
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Postby FelixOr » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:51 am

@Tristan: Wow, sounds great :D. I found a small company, not far away from where i live, that may make small batches ( ~50) for me. I will talk to them and ask for prices on monday.
Thx fo your help! :thumbUp:

@Ripley: Thanks for the link. It's very helpfull, because they offer the mounting bolt in aluminium.

@Rasmus: Yep, i agree. I don't think it's wise to chang the springs...
I can give it a try, and can still switch back to the original springs :)

I would appreciate it, if you could give me some tipps regarding the finish of the derailleur. I just did some sanding, drilling and filing which saved 8.2grams.....
I didn't work on the finish yet. Do i just have to use some polish, or are there any tricks, that mkes it look even better?
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Postby FelixOr » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:07 pm

HoHoHo it's looking very gooood :grin: :banana: :banana:

First of all, i have to say "Thank you" to Erez_Pinarello, who helped me with this.
So what did we do? Since i'm using a 11-21 cassette, i can use a fairly short chain, which results in higher tension, so i actually do not need the "extra"-tensioner for the front cage. The part(s) i mean are signed red in the drawing. If you just remove the whole "extra"-tensioner, you will run into a problem: You won't be able top fix the spring anywhere, thus there won't be any tension on the chain.
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I carefully drilled away the housing for the adjustment screw on the front cage. Then i removed the part that sits between the spring and the front cage.
Both parts are signed red in the drawing...
After that was done, i drilled a small hole (1mm diameter) in the front cage, as seen on the pics below**. This hole has to be drilled exactly where the end of the spring would normally be fixed. See pic below, see picture:
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The spring can be fixed in this hole.


I will get Extralite pulleys, aluminium pulley bolts and an aluminium pivot bolt. Thanks Karbon (Erik)! These parts will save me about 15grams over my current setup. --> 140grams :shock: :shock:
My aim is to get below 140! Any suggestions? I would do it with a alu mounting bolt. Does anybody know where i can get one?

**
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Postby Tristan » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:13 pm

Looks great Felix!!

I love how ruthless you've been!
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Postby Alex » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:35 pm

Nice work!
I have experimented with making Ti springs for my Precision Billet RD's.
I have used Ti spokes. I used a method similar to the spring forming post on WW. I found it very difficult to form the coil springs for the RD. Getting the coils to wind with the correct diameter and hight is very difficult. They have to be near perfect to fit inside of the RD body without binding. If they bind, they won't work. I've made one for my PAUL 409 FD and that works fine. Its just like the Campy style FD spring.
Good luck! And keep up the good work!
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Postby FelixOr » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:07 pm

Thanks Tristan!

Thanks for the tipp, Alex. I tried to make a ti spring for my FD, but it didn't work well. After a short time of use, it got too weak and the derailleur didn't return to it's lowest position.


Just came back from the hardware store. Let the fun begin!
Thanks to Rasmus for the tipps.
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