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Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Discussion on bikes, and whatever...

Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby aliasforme » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:20 am

Hey guys:

I was wondering if there were any real advantages of this lacing pattern compared to a standard 24 pattern. I originally thought it may have been marketing BS but then I read Sheldon's ad/article about "Power Wheels" (yes, that could be marketing BS too). Now I'm not sure what to believe. Can anyone explain to me what the "theoretical" benefits are, and which ones are noticeable in the real world? Currently, the only benefit I can think of is equal tensions on both DS and NDS, but I don't see how that is a REAL benefit (if you lace radial on NDS on a standard 24)

Thanks
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby dkrenik » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:35 pm

Check out the Ligero rear hub review in this forum.
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby Jlz9000 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:12 pm

So are the ligero hubs still available? I think I saw a wheel set using that design from nycvelo. Are there any other triplet spefcfic nds spaced hubs?
Its almost off season up north here, and im also looking for options for a new set of wheels this winter. thanks...
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby j0m » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:13 pm

Well, I have one triplet laced Tune/Edge wheel. The original wheel builder didn't do a great job and when a spoke broke the wheel was firmly stuck in the frame, so that kind of sucked. OTOH it was rather nice with the even spoke tension when I rebuilt it. When riding and not breaking spokes I can't say I can tell any difference from a "normally" laced wheel, but then again I haven't ridden the same rim/hub combo with a traditional pattern. Perhaps not that much of useful information, sorry. :D Anyhow if you do go triplet lacing, don't break any spokes! :xBanana3:
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby Adrien » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:10 pm

I have been using the triplet lacing pattern on our RAR rear wheels until spring 2011.

There are indeed a couple of advantages because it makes a nice high spoke tension on the non drive side.
- First advantage is that it makes the wheel vertically stiffer because every spokes are pulling strongly. Basically you have about 24000N of compression force pulling the rim instead of 19000N when the wheel is build in the standard way.
- Second advantage concerns the wheel-building, you can accurately measure the high spokes tensions with the most common tnesion-meters contrary to the low spokes tension that require a low force spring in the tension-meter.
- Mechanically speaking, the torque transfer is perfectly transmitted from flange to rim because there are 16 spokes being absolutely tangent.

Unfortunately these advantages also come with some disadvantages:
- Like j0m said, in case of spoke break on the non drive side, the wheel will be so out of true that you may not be able to come back at home if your rim is not stiff enough.
- Wheel-building is more time consuming because of the non symmetrical forces pulling on the rim
- Lateral wheel stiffness is lower, between 5 to 10%, because there are less spokes holding the rim laterally where there is a strong bracing angle. This 2:1 lacing is as stiff as a standard spoking as long as the bracing angle is enhanced, so it requires a special hub shell. This wide bracing angle would also make the spoke to enter the rim with a bent which is not really good for endurance.
- because of the strong radial forces on the non drive side, the flange has to be reinforced.

I hope these few lines help to know more about triplet.
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby kavitator » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:36 pm

rear wheel with classic pattern compared 2:1

first wheel was: rim kinlin xr 380, 24 holes, novatec hub, sapim cx rays both side, DS 2x; NDS radial

second wheel same components but with 18 spokes sapim cx ray. On novatec hub on NDS i skip one hole.DS is 2x

test rider (road racer) who ride both sets tell me second is more responsive
WE ARE ONLY STARDUST...so BE COOL :)

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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby aliasforme » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:32 am

Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful
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Re: Benefits of a 16:8 (or 2:1) lacing pattern?

Postby über-goober » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:24 am

Adrien just wrote the manifesto.. hard to add anything to that.

Note that Harlan Meyer of Hi-E and Troy of Ligero had a hard uphill battle convincing people of its merits (you took out 8 spokes? what's the big deal?), but now both Campy and Shimano are marketing triplet wheels. The pioneers were vindicated -- especially now with how much it's warranted by the offset of 11sp Shimano while keeping 130mm spacing.

I think that it is still misunderstood due the need for triplet-specific parts. The hub needs to be wider like say 48mm center-left (vs 32-36mm stock). The NDS flanges must be very strong. And the rim must be center-drilled. Also the old trick of thicker drive side spokes may work better with the thick spokes placed on the NDS.

And lastly, just my own opinion is that 24h is too low for both standard AND triplet, unless you have a light rider and/or stiff and strong rim. A 27h or 30h sounds crazy but would be superior. 24 hole has only been used because that was what's available. These hubs and rims for triplet lacing are desperately needed in 2013.
the problem? could be the nut behind the handlebars.
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