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Tuning Ultegra Di2

Discussion on bikes, and whatever...

Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:10 am

chiva wrote:I'm almost done w/ work. As soon as I get home I'll take the pictures of my cracked open battery mount and post them.


I really don't think there is anything in the shimano battery other than a overcharge protection circuit so the battery wont explode and catch on fire... Ui2 & Di2 use the same battery, and I cant imagine they thought about forward compatibility... from goodboyr » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:04 pm post I'm thinking the voltage is as it should be, and all I need to know is color of the wires and polarity.
Last edited by di2diy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby chiva » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:18 am

Here are the pictures.
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DSC04415.JPG
DSC04416.JPG
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby Jeffr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:19 am

di2diy, See this thread on weightweenies. It is not in the battery but it is in the mount. There is some active circuit to enable the control signals and supply to use the same wires. This chip probably also detects the battery level and reports it to the front harness for the battery indicator light.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=97684
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby chiva » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:55 am

So just to make sure, when I get my new battery mount I'm going to solder the wires from the connectors of my aftermarket battery to the ports/terminal that the stock battery plugs into. Of course I'll insulate accordingly w/ silicone caulking if that sounds ok. From a previous post it looks like the negative terminal is the one closest to the frame when the battery mount is mounted to the frame. Is that right? I just don't want to screw this up. Thanks.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:25 am

chiva wrote:So just to make sure, when I get my new battery mount I'm going to solder the wires from the connectors of my aftermarket battery to the ports/terminal that the stock battery plugs into. Of course I'll insulate accordingly w/ silicone caulking if that sounds ok. From a previous post it looks like the negative terminal is the one closest to the frame when the battery mount is mounted to the frame. Is that right? I just don't want to screw this up. Thanks.
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bat.JPG
this should help
bat.JPG (30.81 KiB) Viewed 3788 times
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:33 am

chiva wrote:Here are the pictures.


Ok, I see and understand its in the mount, but its not clear where this chip is in the mount, and how its wired in the circuit. if its just a chip to identify wouldn't it work if you just spliced a power source in the cable between the connector and the battery mount, in the cable anywhere?
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:12 am

chiva wrote:Here are the pictures.


How about something like this
Attachments
R11.jpg
connect a battery to this end
R12.jpg
use this end from the mount
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby Oilman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:47 pm

That would work, but then you'll still have to buy the rather expensive battery holder.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:50 pm

Oilman wrote:That would work, but then you'll still have to buy the rather expensive battery holder.

True, but chiva, seems to be ok with that :-> and for the guys that already have the stock setup and want to hack looks like fun, and any battery would work. As for me I'm sticking with DA, however if someone could hack the chip that would be cool.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby chiva » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:13 pm

Thanks for the pic of the terminal polarities! I really should have bought Dura Ace Di2. The hackability (did I just create a new word?) of it is superior. Oh well, I'll ride the Ultegra Di2 for a couple of years then upgrade to Campy EPS:) :) :)
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:34 pm

chiva wrote:Thanks for the pic of the terminal polarities! I really should have bought Dura Ace Di2. The hackability (did I just create a new word?) of it is superior. Oh well, I'll ride the Ultegra Di2 for a couple of years then upgrade to Campy EPS:) :) :)


Campy EPS is antihackable (new word) the brain and battery are integrated (http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/new ... t?page=0,1), bigger, and uglyer than Di2. So if the Ui2 battery hack is this much effort I would think twice before going to EPS, but in two years who knows, SRAM EMS?
Attachments
Calfee Ui2 module.jpg
Ui2 module, looking like too much work. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.292626334114704.68145.127955283915144&type=1
EPS brains.jpg
EPS power and brains, and it is not removable, plug in charger on the bike
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby Oilman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Did another quick measurement this afternoon with the battery holder. I've attached to holder to my power supply and measured the output with a multimeter and oscilloscope. When nothing is attached to the battery holder there is a voltage drop of 1-1.5V, when I attached the cable the voltage raises slightly (around 0.1V) above the 'battery' voltage.

So there is definitely active electronics in the battery holder.

It doesn't have to be a problem the 'brain' of EPS is in the battery (holder). Just like the junction box in DA DI2 we can measure the input and output and reverse engineer it.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby di2diy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:41 pm

Oilman wrote:Did another quick measurement this afternoon with the battery holder. I've attached to holder to my power supply and measured the output with a multimeter and oscilloscope. When nothing is attached to the battery holder there is a voltage drop of 1-1.5V, when I attached the cable the voltage raises slightly (around 0.1V) above the 'battery' voltage.

So there is definitely active electronics in the battery holder.

It doesn't have to be a problem the 'brain' of EPS is in the battery (holder). Just like the junction box in DA DI2 we can measure the input and output and reverse engineer it.

So looking at the Calfee Ui2 module, why do you think it's so big, if all that is needed is a chip like in the battery mount?
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby Jeffr » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:44 am

It's cheaper to make things big than it is to make them small.
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Re: Tuning Ultegra Di2

Postby Oilman » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 am

Hooked the Ultegra DI2 up to the oscilloscope this morning. My scope at home is an old analog Philips, so my possibilities are quite limited compared to the modern digital scopes.

I got some results. Before I connected the scope I attached a shifter to the wire normally going into the junction box. The result, nothing happened. Quite strange, since the rest of the group seems to be a true bus protocol. When I unplug the rear-derailleur and attach the front shifter, I can shift the front-derailleur. Connecting to rear shifters also works flawless.

With the oscilloscope I was able to measure at least a part of the communication. When a button is pressed, the DC level of the bus raises slightly, this doesn't seem to be really important. The interesting part is the signal which is modulated on top of the DC signal. It has a frequency of around 1 MHz and a peak to peak voltage of 0.3V. There is a couple of times a phase shift in this signal. But this signal isn't constant. After something like 30 periods it stops and then the signal is repeated. The repeating happens with a frequency of around a couple kHz. My first though was they use On-Off keying, however the time between the high frequency waves seem to be constant. Second idea was PSK, but whatever button I press I get the same phase shifts.

So I gained some information, but I still don't know how it works. I can do some more measurements (for example with unplugging parts), but then I'd have to take everything to the university to measure with a better oscilloscope. Maybe I'll give it a try to make the group work without the battery holder tomorrow.
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