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ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

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ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Johnny Bravo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:16 pm

hi guys,
instead of a 3.4 or a 6.7 SES, i would like to know if someone has ever thought about a 4.6 combination on ENVE SES wheels.
i know the 3 and the 6 rims are narrower than 4 and 7 rims.
but i was thinking about a better balance between (light) weight and aero benefit, then came to mind a 4.6 setup.
what would you say? BTW, i am talking about the CLINCHER version.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby pritchet74 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:22 pm

That actually sounds like a brilliant idea. But since the 4 is usually spec'd as a rear and the 6 usually as a front, would the hole drillings work as a front and a rear?
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Johnny Bravo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:57 pm

pritchet, i got a reply from a wheelbuilderb associated to FWB and he said that unfortunately it would not be possible because the 4 is a 24-hole rim and the 6 is a 20-hole rim...
anyway i would appreciate if ENVE could release a proper 4.6 setup - then i would surely exchange my 404 FC for them.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Ypsylon » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:19 pm

I like your idea in theory, but having ridden both, I don't see the hole between the two sets.

Keeping in mind the 4 was developed to be a rear and the six to be a front the odds are that you might end up with a wheelset that is less aero, less stable, and heavier than the 3.4, even if you could get the right drillings.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Johnny Bravo » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:44 pm

i tend to believe that the enve 3 wheel is "too" shallow for my needs and the 6.7 SES is heavier than I expected (I intend to lace a Powertap G3 hub to the rear wheel, so an enve rear wheel with 60mm would probably save around 50-100g compared to a 7).
actually what i want is something as deep as a zipp 404 on the front and 60mm deep on the rear.
unless someone tells me that a 3.4 SES is as aero (or more aero) than a zipp 404 FC setup...
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Ypsylon » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:19 pm

A wide concave rim will weigh more than a narrow convex one to get the same stiffness.

If you like the 6 as your front wheel, my guess is that the .7 is the best match. If you must have a lighter rear, why not look at the non SMART 65. That should save quite a bit of weight.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby pritchet74 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:14 pm

But the wheels have to match! FASHION POLICE! But I guess that you could do the white ENVE decals on the front wheel so they would almost match.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Johnny Bravo » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:25 pm

still deciding about the new wheelset... I still think a deeper front wheel is more benefic to my training area (by the sea, 90% flat roads, but occasionally racing outside hometown on hilly areas)

so I would like to hear your opinions about this mixed build (zipp 303 front/enve 4 rear):

Wheel 1
Spoke Count: 16
Rim: Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clincher Rim (Zipp X45): 500g
Hub: Alchemy ELF (Extra Light Front) Front Road Hub : 66.45g
Spoke type: Sapim CX-Ray Spoke (268mm): 4.36g
Nipple type: 14mm Standard Alloy Nipple: 0.34g
Wheel 1 Total Weight: 641.70 g

Wheel 2
Spoke Count: 24
Rim: Enve Composites Smart System 3.4 45mm Rear Clincher Rim: 450.0g
Hub: PowerTap G3 Hub (2012): 325g
Spoke type: Sapim CX-Ray Spoke (268mm): 4.36g
Nipple type: 14mm Standard Alloy Nipple: 0.34g
Wheel 2 Total Weight: 887.88 g

Total Weight: 1529.58 g

(if built with Sapim Super Spoke Bladed: less 30g total. Please also send opinions about theses spokes)

IMPORTANT: this is intended to be my ONLY wheelset, for both training and racing. I will have a cheap spare wheelset, but for emergencies only.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby pritchet74 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:12 am

That would be a really nice wheelset - my only concern would be the rims not matching. If you are looking at the 303 FC wheels, why not just go with a set of those? I hear those are really nice wheels. But with 90% of your riding on flat roads I would go with the 404's if you do go Zipp. Lots faster.
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby Johnny Bravo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:07 am

pritchet74 wrote:... I would go with the 404's if you do go Zipp. Lots faster.


my first thinking: is the enve 3.4 clincher set as fast (or faster) than a zipp 404 set?
if affirmative, then i would be able to keep the same (or better) aero benefit, PLUS the lower weight for the set, using the ENVE 3.4.

second: considering the rear ENVE 4 is lighter than the rear zipp 404 and IF both have the same aero performance, i choose to go for the lightest so i can install a powertap and still keep a light set.

third: considering i have 90% flat terrain around and the rear wheel will be the ENVE 4, then i'd better go for the most aero front wheel (not deeper than the rear, of course) - and i THINK a zipp 303 with a 45mm rim and 16 spokes would be faster than the ENVE 3 with "only" 35mm rim and 20 spokes.

i apologize if i am being too picky, but i think this matter deserves a good discussion.
oh, how i wish ENVE would release a 45mm/55mm SES... :wink:
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Re: ENVE SES 4.6 - what would you say?

Postby pritchet74 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:28 am

I do agree with all of your points. I just can't get over the decals not matching. That's just me though.

But if it was me I would get a set of Hed Jet 6's. better braking with the alloy brake track, more aero than the options you have, and, and, and, that's about it. They are heavier by a bit though. But hey, I did just buy a new set of Jet 6's. :banana:

I just don't see the point of a carbon clincher wheel. Except that they look better. :wink:
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