January 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm #93571Keymaster
Last year Shimano announced that the new Dura Ace 9000 and 9070 groupos would be moving to 11 speed. Since that time there have been lots of questions about what hubs are compatible, which can be converted and what is required to do so and what effects those conversions will have on wheels. A lot of different answers and numbers have been thrown around on the internet as answers, but as far as I can tell many of these are just guesses or assumptions. What follows are the true answers that we’ve been able to gather talking directly with each manufacturer. We of course aren’t going to try and compile this for every hub, but here we have answers for the most common high end hubs.
The Orc was originally designed to have the largest possible drive side offset. Because Alchemy would like to continue with this idea of optimization there will be no conversion kits manufactured for current 10 speed hubs. Alchemy will however release a new version of the ORC for Shimano 11 speed. Release date is currently set in Feb. and we do know that the Shimano 11 hub will be the first Orc UL version that gets released this year. Being as the hub is not done there isn’t a lot of information that we are allowed to share. We do know that there will be 3 versions (Shimano 11, Shimano 10 and Campag 11) Each being designed to take advantage of maximum possible drive side offset. We do know that the hub will keep it’s previous 131mm OLN dimension and a drive side offset of about 18mm.
Feb 2013 Update
We’ve heard the ORC is shipping late Feb. We’ve had some indications that availability in some quantity is likely. We’re going to, of course, let you know about the new hubs as soon as we can. Pick your poison but the best ways to get the most up to date information from us is on: Twitter, Facebook, Jason’s (MadCow) Facebook or through our monthly newsletter. If you’re on any of those you will be the first to know.
Chris King R45
Chris King will soon offer the R45 as a complete hub compatible with Shimano 11 and will also offer a conversion kit for existing R45 hubs. Complete hubs look like they should be available the 15th of Jan, while conversion kits should be available about the same time or shortly thereafter. The King conversion kit will have the freehub body, end caps and axle. Converting existing hubs will require a re-dishing of the wheel. The drive side offset will be reduced down to 17.1mm.
Feb 2013 Update
Chris King’s R45 hubs are now shipping from Chris King as 11 speed compatible. The CK 11-speed conversion kit is also available for $258.
Dt-Swiss will manufacture hubs and conversion kits. Complete hubs and conversion kits are already available for both the 350 and 240. DT is one of the few hubs that can make the change from Shimano 10 to Shimano 11 without any required re-dishing of the wheel. The OLN spacing of the DT has been disputed a bit but despite what some might say DT is using the 131 mm spacing. One of our complaints in the past about DT hubs was that it had less offset than many competitors on the drive side, however in going to 11 speed this has worked in their favor allowing for the change to take place pretty seamlessly. And when looking at 11 speed hubs the 16.9mm drive side offset is now on par with almost every other high end hub. The DT kit includes a new freehub body and end cap.
Feb 2013 Update
All DT-Swiss Hubs are available as 11-speed hubs.
Extralite SX, SLX, SPX
Extalite will offer both 10 and 11 speed specific hubs going forward with 10 speed versions keeping the better drive side offsets. Conversion kits are available for both V1.0 and V2.0 of the SX, SLX and SPX. However it should be noted that converting Extralite hubs is a pretty involved process that requires a high amount of mechanical ability as well as special tools. Extralite offers a 131mm Shimano 11 speed conversion kit which helps keep the drive side offset from decreasing as much, keeping it right at 17mm. There is also a 130mm conversion which reduces the offset yet again. Using either conversion kit requires re-dishing of the wheel, but the 131mm requires less change to wheel dish. Conversion kits are currently available.
Feb 2013 Update
Extralite Hubs and conversion kits are available for sale from Extralite now. Future shipments will be 9000 and 9070 compatible.
Tune Mag 170
Tune will offer complete 11 speed compatible hubs and conversion kits for existing Mag 170 hubs starting at the end of Jan. The 11 speed body will be visibly recognizable by a small groove machined around the end of the body. Tune conversion kits will be for 131mm spacing and will require a slight re-dish of the wheel. The kits will include freehub bodies, end cap, and bearings as well as 4 shims. Tune along with Alchemy will now have the largest drive side offset that we know of for 11 speed Shimano, managing to keep their current 18mm drive side offset. The conversion kits will be available in two versions, the standard and the skyline. Standard would be the version for the 170 with the Skyline being the lighter body of the 150. Older hubs with the 15mm axles will not be convertible.
Feb 2013 Update
Tune 170 conversion kits will be available in two weeks. The Mag 170 will begin shipping as either 11-speed or 10-speed compatible as well.
White Industries H3
The White Industries The H3 hub is convertible to Shimano 11, conversion kits are currently available and will require a re-dish. The H3 will no longer be produced, but W.I. has released a new Shimano 11 speed hub called the T11 which is already currently available. The new T11 drops the drive side offset down to 16mm making it the least drive side offset and lowest tension ratio of all the above listed hubs. It does however have almost largest left side offset except for the Alchemy. On the upside this does mean that W.I hubs are now fully interchangeable between Shimano and Campag 11 without a required redish.
Building dimension comparison
Obviously an 11 speed drivetrain requires sacrifice to accommodate for the larger cassette stack. So as an example of how the hubs compare in a complete wheel here are avg bracing angles and tension ratios for all the above hubs. Based on an ERD of 587, 24 spoke 2x/2x.
Model Left Angle / Right Angle Tension Ratio Alchemy UL 7.8 / 3.7 48% King R45 7.4 / 3.5 47% DT240 6.7 / 3.5 51% Extralite SLX 7.5 / 3.5 46% Tune Mag170 7.3 / 3.7 51% White Industries T11 7.7 / 3.3 43%January 4, 2013 at 10:08 pm #93572Fred Deutsch
On info on HED wheel compatibility?January 5, 2013 at 6:33 am #93573Mark
What is the significance of the “poor” tension ratio of the WI hubs? I believe that every design has its pluses and minuses – Why would WI have chosen to design a hub to have the “poorest” tension ratio? What are the pluses?January 5, 2013 at 9:21 am #93574John Hitchcock
What about pre 2012 lightweights. Since they are based on DT swiss hubs, you just need the conversion kit?March 12, 2013 at 11:01 am #93575Leo C.
What about Campy hubs that were configured as 11 speed Campy or 10 speed Shimano systems? How easy would it be to adapt them for Dura Ace 9000 use?
Some insight there would make this informative (as usual!) Fairwheel article even better…September 5, 2013 at 8:03 pm #94608Participant
according to the white industries web site, http://www.whiteind.com/faq.html , they modified the t11 rear hub so the DS flange offset is now 18 mm and the NDS offset is 35 mm. Plugging these new dimensions into spocalc for a 24 spoked 2x wheel with a 587 ERD gives bracing angles of 7.1/3.7 and a tension ratio of 52%.May 14, 2014 at 3:20 pm #95505Participant
Hi guys. Have Shimano been forthcoming on this? Can you stick a DA FH-9000 freehub body onto an FH-7800/FH-7900/etc.? The interface looks the same but I don’t know if they occupy the same amount of space. I would guess you’d even have parts on-hand (not necessarily DA but whatever) to test this